The Federal Trade Commission issued a decision, In re Amway Corp., in 1979 in which it indicated that multi-level marketing was not illegal per se in the United States. However, Amway was found guilty of price fixing (by effectively requiring "independent" distributors to sell at the same fixed price) and making exaggerated income claims.[47][48] The FTC advises that multi-level marketing organizations with greater incentives for recruitment than product sales are to be viewed skeptically. The FTC also warns that the practice of getting commissions from recruiting new members is outlawed in most states as "pyramiding".[49]
look if you go and search top MLM businesses, no matter what link you click on, the number one company is amway. Why everyone goes with different companies i don’t get it, check it out compare to mary kay. Here’s the thing though, I contract with amway, but my organization is worldwide. Mentorship organization. I feel which ever MLM business you choose, join a mentorship organization that is in that business. The reason why amway is number one is because of worldwide. it’s only 10% of everyone that is in amway, yet 90% of the 6 and 7 figure earners are part of worldwide…why? because they broken down the company and know exactly how to succeed and retire quicker than someone who tries amway on their own or joins another mentorship company. what’s the success rate? to those who do what others have done 100%. So at the end of the day, consider all of this. With amway and worldwide, it doesn’t matter how old you are, where you come from, ANYONE can do it. Mary Kay is a female company, good luck getting a bunch of single dudes to make it with that.
It was an absolute pleasure doing business with you. I was very pleased with the speed that you delivered your product. We ordered a specific quantity of addresses but Listguy was very generous in supplying 5,000 more addresses that we had requested at no further cost. We were able to acquire the addresses we needed in the time frame we required. I would definitely recommend Listguy!
No, It is not advisable to buy MLM leads. The company which is selling you leads won’t guarantee any sales from those leads. In fact the conversion rate from those leads won’t be much. Think you have spent few dollars for those leads and ended up with less conversion rate than what you have expected; you lost both money and time. Why did i mention time here? Yes, you lost the time while waiting for the leads, which you are in conviction, that they will be converted into customers. Instead you can learn some skills, Copywriting skills, for enticing the real customers into your MLM Business.
(May 2017 update: did this go under?) The sign up cost will make you do a triple take (almost four figures), but you get to set your own retail price on every product you sell. If you’ve got the skills to make people cough up the cash for their products (which, btw, are pretty legit), you could definitely make that money back. They’ve also been winning plenty of awards (even a growth award from the Direct Selling Association themselves).
Don’t just focus on the glowing reviews from distributors who are making $50,000 per month. You should also pay close attention to those people who never made any money and gave up after a few short months. Why did they give up? What are the common complaints from unsuccessful distributors? Answer these questions to gain insights into the MLM you’re considering.
Truthfully, this is a difficult marker because the BBB routinely marks home business opportunities low simply because they're involved in working at home, not based on any investigation. However, you can see if there are complaints and how the company dealt with them. If a company is responding to and fixing problems (all companies in every industry will have customer service issues), that's a good sign. However, if they fail to respond or offer help, that is a red flag. 

Getting leads is just one step in the sales cycle. Next, you need to qualify them to determine if they're a good fit, then make your pitch, and finally, follow up. Many network marketers don't like the sales process, but it doesn't have to be hard or scary, especially if you start with leads who've come to you specifically to know about what you offer.


It was an absolute pleasure doing business with you. I was very pleased with the speed that you delivered your product. We ordered a specific quantity of addresses but Listguy was very generous in supplying 5,000 more addresses that we had requested at no further cost. We were able to acquire the addresses we needed in the time frame we required. I would definitely recommend Listguy!

A few noteworthy points on this list… The only companies considered for this list are U.S.A. based; and if you click on each and every company linked above, what you will not find should be as interesting to you (and as revealing) as what you will find. There are no travel companies, only two technology companies (ACN and 5LINX), just one service company (Legal Shield), and 22 health and wellness companies. Even Amway, whose core product line still includes soap, really got started by way of the wellness revolution! Read this book by Paul Zane Pilzer and you’ll understand why nutrition, weight management, and skincare products continue to drive the trends in the network marketing industry to this day.
I spent about 3 years selling Amway back in the 70’s. There was a lot of hype but I made enough money to achieve several of my more modest financial goals. I went on to use some of what I learned to make extra money in various ventures and eventually started a small business out of my home. The business grew until mainstream retailers began offering the same product I was selling at comparable prices. The MLM as a learning tool has some value as long as the product is decent. This MLM ranking is a good way to attract attention and I am curious about Your service. I am selective about what I spend my time and effort on.
4) Treat your MLM business like a business. Despite what you might hear, MLM isn't a get rich scheme. Like any business it requires you to define your target market, reach out to your market, and make sales.You have a sponsor to help you, but she isn't going to do the work for you.Your success in MLM or any business is based on the quality of work you do.

Facebook used to be an easy source to tap into, but since they have formed a public company with shareholders who need to be kept happy, Facebook have changed their Terms of Service several times recently and have clamped down on a number of things that used to make lead generation relatively easy. They have discouraged siphoning off clients to external web sites and CPA offers, and have raised the cost of advertisements that do this. It remains a viable lead source however.
A long time friend that you lost touch with for the last 10 years gives you a call and asks to meet up. After meeting up and breaking the ice, he/she then introduces a new revolutionary product and how you stand to get rich by selling it. Throw in jargons like passive income and downlines, you suddenly realise you’re beginning to be sucked into the dream they are selling.

Our Real Time Short Form Leads are the greatest thing around when it comes to Home Based Business and MLM leads! These leads are the freshest possible! Here’s how it works: a person accesses the internet and requests information about working from home. Within seconds of when they click “Submit,” their information is emailed directly to you! By delivering the leads instantly, if you are logged onto your email, you are able to contact them immediately, possibly while they’re still online! Our high-speed technology will work wonders for you and you’re business! Real Time Leads are available in the United States only.
Now that companies can easily sell directly to their customers online, people look to social media to get their recommendations for products, and the popularity of subscription beauty boxes, not to mention the fact that there are so many retail stores even in the most far out suburbs, I don’t see how the network marketing model is necessary anymore. The only people who defend them are the people who were trained to. This is because MLMs love to brainwash you into defending them against naysayers and demand you go on the offensive to anyone who might disagree. They may still have wide-eyed hope. It’s sad and terrible. The sooner these pyramid schemes are declared illegal and go out of the business, the better off the world will be.

Rather than focusing solely on the technical aspects of how the best MLM leads are generated , we are able to dramatically improve overall conversion rates and quality of network marketing leads by adjusting the entire opt-in process through the eyes of your prospects. Our job is to understand what your prospects want and to help them get it. We believe technology and design should follow people, not the other way around.
I enjoyed this post and spent too many hours reading all your other posts and watching your videos. You have some excellent real life experiences to share and glad I found this blog. My wife and I are with It Works Global (She started it and I came on board later). I was curious why they didn’t make your list? Do you think blogging would work with this type MLM? I have only had success using Instagram and Facebook. The MLM model is not something I like but it is what is I guess. My wife joined to get a discount on wraps and now this insane looking chart pays the bills. I want to take it further just keep searching for a good way to do so. Maybe blogging is the answer? Thank you. for your time. Mike
Multi-level marketing companies are not required to release information about the average income of distributors in the United States. However, some MLMs do release this information in what is called an income disclosure statement. If you would like to see the amount of income gained by distributors on average for a specific MLM, search the company’s name in Google + “income disclosure statement.”
What you want to watch out for are "fast track" programs or pressure to have inventory that requires additional investment. Due to this practice, the law now requires MLM companies to buy back inventory, but that doesn't mean you want to be saddled with debt before you start and truly understand the business. Having a few popular products on hand can be nice, but don't fill your garage with products unless you know for sure, based on your experience in the business, that you can sell them.
Breaking into the world of travel bloggers, hotel hoppers, and digital nomads with #wanderlust was one of the best ideas MLM ever had. Everyone out there wants to work remotely nowadays, and a huge portion of those people want to do it so that they can travel. So, a remote income opportunity with a travel MLM just makes sense. WorldVentures is hitting this niche hard, having been named one of the Inc. 5000’s fastest growing companies twice in a row.
This group effect also plays into the vital role that a person’s social network can have on their retirement. Studies show that being around negative, pessimistic or sarcastic people can actually be detrimental to your health.  And many people can get stuck in a rut when it comes to who they hang around and associate with. Which means successful aging includes hanging around upbeat, positive people.
Breaking into the world of travel bloggers, hotel hoppers, and digital nomads with #wanderlust was one of the best ideas MLM ever had. Everyone out there wants to work remotely nowadays, and a huge portion of those people want to do it so that they can travel. So, a remote income opportunity with a travel MLM just makes sense. WorldVentures is hitting this niche hard, having been named one of the Inc. 5000’s fastest growing companies twice in a row.
A long time friend that you lost touch with for the last 10 years gives you a call and asks to meet up. After meeting up and breaking the ice, he/she then introduces a new revolutionary product and how you stand to get rich by selling it. Throw in jargons like passive income and downlines, you suddenly realise you’re beginning to be sucked into the dream they are selling.
Many times the MLM business will require their distributors to purchase a certain amount of product themselves.  It can be used as designed or used as freebies to give away to potential recruits — but you’re still spending your hard earned money in order to promote the business.  (And in the meantime, not generating any profit from the business while you “ramp up”.)
The Filipino community, much like many immigrant communities, is ripe for the recruitment of participants in MLMs. Filipino immigrants can be particularly easy targets to exploit, as this Filipino-American writer can attest. They are easygoing and friendly. The ones with a college education understand and speak English very well. The community is crawling with network marketers hawking everything from cosmetics to travel packages to insurance products, courtesy of companies that promise the dream of passive income as well as incentives such as car bonuses and vacations.
Each company will have a different startup cost, which is a fee that new distributors must pay to begin distributing. Companies with high startup costs are more likely to be recruitment-centric MLMs. MLMs that focus on recruitment are generally called pyramid schemes, or schemes designed only to tie down new recruits instead of selling quality products to interested customers.
The following is a list of organizations that according to their website descriptions provide MLM lead lists. Database Systems Corp. is not affiliated with any of these organizations nor does it promote or endorse the products and services of these companies. These websites provide various types of leads including business marketing leads, business opportunity leads, opt in MLM leads, network marketing leads, home business leads etc.
People who wonder why network marketing doesn’t work have likely also never joined the best MLM for them at the time or had great upline support and a team around them to get through the often frustrating first few months. Opportunities abound – even publicly traded multi-level marketing companies, who you would think are these huge businesses that give you no attention, have small teams and wonderful leaders to join. It’s just a matter of finding the top teams in the company you’re looking at.
The Leadpower Promise: Here at LeadPower we talk through experience, we have been generating leads since 1998 and have helped over 167,779 network marketers. The founder of our company founder has been a network marketer himself for over 20 years. He has built some very large groups consisting of well over hundreds of thousands of distributors. He understands how network marketing works and understands sauce how lead generation works as well.
Many of the beautiful sites offered no type of ongoing training, and that was something that really needs to be be a part of any good MLM leads programs. The sites we recommend all provides training which also includes scripts, handling objections, presentation, following up, closing, and other MLM leads topics. There are some HOT MLM leads sites out there that truly delivered on this qulaity of MLM leads training.
The internet has made it easier than ever for people involved in multilevel marketing (MLM) to find leads or people who might be interested in your product, service, or business. Instead of just reaching out to people you know or approaching strangers, you can create a website, build an email list, leverage social media, and develop referral programs to generate solid leads that can eventually translate to sales.
Pay Per Click or PPC can be very effective in the right hands. If you do it the wrong way it can be a fast track to financial ruin. Unlike Facebook Ads where you can see how effective your ads are within minutes, Google AdWords are much less responsive and you can use up a lot of cash before you hit the winning combination. Concentrate on being very focused and specific. If you are not, you will get lots of clicks on an ad which sounds right, but results in low conversion rates when people find that it’s not exactly what they are looking for.

Multi Level Marketing (MLM) is a business model or marketing strategy in which the distributors' income includes their own sales, and a percentage of the sales group they recruit, which is commonly known as their ‘downline’. Customers can also sign up as a distributor to sell the company’s product. Usually, the sign up fee will be the price paid to purchase the product.


In just 30 years, Melaleuca has grown from a little startup in rural Idaho to a billion-dollar enterprise doing business in 19 countries around the globe. It has become one of the largest catalog and online wellness retailers in North America. And it is the largest manufacturer of consumer packaged goods in the Northwest. Today, more than a million customers shop with Melaleuca every month.
My network marketing Leads are the best way to follow the golden proverb that somebody must have dropped coming down the mountain, because when it fell, it hit so hard that everyone doesn’t think twice about it just being plan common sense. And I don’t know why it isn’t folded into every California cookie because it is the best way to gain a fortune. This proverb that needs much repeating is “Work smarter, not harder.”

There are a few ways to use LinkedIn lead generation as an effective marketing tool. One way that people don’t often think of is participating in LinkedIn answers. There is a section on LinkedIn where people ask industry-specific questions and get advice. As an industry insider, you have the knowledge that can help people with these questions. Through participating in a regular dialogue of advice-giving, you can establish yourself as a thought leader. Moreover, you can optimize use of this tool by pointing people to your online blog that gives more information about the subject. Make sure to send them to a blog with a call to action at the end!
I totally agree, Mary. You can lose soooo much more just by opening up a small storefront business. I was in the Spa Industry and then the economy tanked in late 2008. I did not renew my lease in 2009. Lost my several hundred thousand dollar build-out. Lost so much more than taking an MLM business seriously. Even if I would have front loaded on a ton of product, I still would have been better off. People spend $750 and get some business cards then do nothing and blame MLM.
Our goal is to make it easy for you to find the Network Marketing Leads you need so you can spend your time growing your business into the success you want it to be. Save yourself lots of time and money by selecting one of our Business Opportunity Leads Lists today so you can start targeting your market as soon as possible! Simply contact us now to get started. Easy Breezy!
Hi Jeremy great article. Here’s my take for what it is worth,after working 50 years for the bank making not so much money,having to accommodate there time schedule ,negotiated vacations and seeing very few people advance to 6 figure incomes,I’m somewhat intrigued by the idea of using my retirement years looking at mlm as a part time endeavour . Obviously I put a lot of blood sweat and tears into my previous job,so I’m not expecting to make my millions in a couple years in mlm, but I like the (do it in your own time) idea. If I find a product I like and would use anyway why not? I also like the idea that the potential is there biased on your own efforts. Am I wrong What do you think?
In an October 15, 2010 article, it was stated that documents of a MLM called Fortune Hi-Tech Marketing reveal that 30 percent of its representatives make no money and that 54 percent of the remaining 70 percent only make $93 a month, before costs. Fortune was under investigation by the Attorneys General of Texas, Kentucky, North Dakota, and North Carolina with Missouri, South Carolina, Illinois, and Florida following up complaints against the company.[39] The FTC eventually stated that Fortune Hi-Tech Marketing was a pyramid scheme and that checks totaling more than $3.7 million were being mailed to the victims.[40] 

The legal distinction between MLMs and traditional pyramid schemes has been characterized by many authorities as a legal fiction. Jurisdictions that retain a legal distinction between MLM pyramid businesses versus illegal pyramid schemes retain said distinction on two key distinguishing features: 1) that MLMs always encompass the sale of actual products/services, while traditional illegal pyramid schemes ordinarily do not (though sometimes they do), and 2) that climbing an MLM pyramid is overwhelmingly statistically improbable (especially to its highest participant levels) but not theoretically impossible, whereas climbing a traditional illegal pyramid scheme is both statistically and theoretically impossible.[citation needed]
Once you are ready to buy leads, understanding which lead product is best for you is the next step. Are you interested in calling leads when their interest is at their highest? Then you will want to purchase Real time leads. Are you just getting started and want to get a lot of practice and build your list with a lesser investment? Then, the discounted, aged leads may be better. Test them out and see what works best for you.
I believe the ones that don’t make it in the industry (if they chose a good one) don’t give it enough time (like you said they quit before a year is up) and commitment to doing what it takes to grow. I don’t spam FB and only 2 family members order product but I have at least 100+ home school moms making >$2000/mth. Some team members make more, some less. It’s what they put into it (business wise not monetary)
The real selling point for MLMs is that distributors can make money in two different ways. The first is money made from commissions from direct selling to consumers. And the second way to make money with an MLM is from the commissions made from sales of distributors below you in the pyramid (these are sometimes referred to as recruits or downline distributors).
First of all, Avon “has” been. Second, Avon really needs to work on their appeal to a younger generation. Third, Avon makes it difficult for representatives to make any money unless you are purchasing a ton of catalogs and knocking on doors. The company really needs to allow representatives to advertise online, and I don’t mean spamming friends on a Facebook or Twitter feed.
It is essential to go with an option that is going to deliver these kind of results. This is why the best network marketing leads are often found by just handing out flyers because most people will already have heard of the product/service and are willing to make the purchase right away. Just get the word out and start spreading those flyers and business cards in town. You will be surprised as to how many people are interested in these products/services and are willing to spend money on them.
Many of the beautiful sites offered no type of ongoing training, and that was something that really needs to be be a part of any good MLM leads programs. The sites we recommend all provides training which also includes scripts, handling objections, presentation, following up, closing, and other MLM leads topics. There are some HOT MLM leads sites out there that truly delivered on this qulaity of MLM leads training.
Ben Thataway, a CEO benefits forever off of his employees and the employees can spend a lifetime and never make the kind of money they can make in network marketing. I know someone personally that beat out 80,000 representatives, did not join the company untli 3 years after it launched and became the top income earner. What you’ve heard, or what you think you know about network marketing is false.
It is almost impossible to stop the industry because of the amount of investors and lobbyists who are profiting from them. “During the Obama administration, the Federal Trade Commission made its biggest-ever effort to curb this industry when last summer it slapped nutritional supplement–seller Herbalife with a $200 million fine and, as part of a settlement with Herbalife, demanded it restructure its business so that it would “start operating legitimately,” as FTC Chairwoman Edith Ramirez put it.” (Slate) The current administration under President Donald Trump will be a completely different story and may very well be a boon for the MLM industry. Let’s start with Trump himself. In 2009, he licensed his name to an MLM, which eventually went bankrupt, along with many of his participants. Many in Trump’s cabinet have strong ties to MLMs as well: Betsey DeVos (whose husband is the president of Amway — by the way, DeVos family has donated $200 million to the Republican party over the years), Ben Carson, Carl Icahn (a billionaire who is also a major investor in Herbalife and holds five board seats at the company), and Charles Herbster.
Not all MLM companies are created equal. Many see an initial burst of success followed by a gradual tapering off of profits, causing them to collapse and go out of business. MLM companies that succeed have sound business models, both for those who run the company and for those who sell product and recruit new sales agents. There are many sites devoted to MLM rankings, creating lists of companies likely to provide a return on investment to sales agents interested in the industry.
Thanks Ray for this info about the lead company. Some time ago I purchased Todd’s script book and purchased a large group of leads from another company. After over 400 calls I realized that the company had sold my ‘exclusive’ leads, muliple times. Did I consider it a waste of time and money? No, it was a very good training opportunity for me. Most people have a job and work and can’t take time off to get a ‘telemarketer’ job. But they can get a script book and get a group of inexpensive leads and use it as a form of training on the phone. After a large no. of calls the phone can become a familiar and usable tool.
Unlike other distribution methods MLM/NM companies don't advertise their products on TV or other mass media but rather depend on their customers to share the experience and recommend the products to their friends and relatives through word of mouth. They in return get 10-12 % profit of the sale value. Word of mouth/ recommending someone is a very powerful marketing tool which is cheaper and could reach more people because the selling of product is based on trust. Would you not buy a product your close friend uses and finds beneficial and asks you to try ?
Many MLM companies do generate billions of dollars in annual revenue and hundreds of millions of dollars in annual profit. However, the profits of the MLM company are accrued at the detriment to the majority of the company's constituent workforce (the MLM participants). Only some of said profit is then significantly shared with individual participants at the top of the MLM distributorship pyramid. The earnings of those top few participants is emphasized and championed at company seminars and conferences, thus creating an illusion of how one can potentially become financially successful if they become a participants in the MLM. This is then advertised by the MLM company to recruit more distributors to participate in the MLM with a false anticipation of earning margins which are in reality merely theoretical and statistically improbable.[14]
Business Opportunity Leads typically come from people who are either seeking to find a new business opportunity or those who are interested in creating a business opportunity. It is not uncommon for business opportunity leads to involve investors or those who have access to stock or funds that they would like to direct towards a more purposeful cause. Leads may also come from new businesses that are seeking to offer opportunities to prospective clients.
Facebook used to be an easy source to tap into, but since they have formed a public company with shareholders who need to be kept happy, Facebook have changed their Terms of Service several times recently and have clamped down on a number of things that used to make lead generation relatively easy. They have discouraged siphoning off clients to external web sites and CPA offers, and have raised the cost of advertisements that do this. It remains a viable lead source however.
For full disclosure, I want to point out that I am not affiliated with any multi-level marketing or direct sales companies, and that I don’t receive any compensation from the industry for my opinion on it.  I’m sharing this with you because after I wrote what is considered the most widely read, copied, and quoted MLM article in the history of the industry, I was accused of writing it to promote my own MLM business or the industry in general, which is not the case.
I do have to say you are the best at providing great helpful information to others. I feel like you do really care about our success...and I like that!!!I filtered through a lot of lead selling sites. Like I said, Yours sounded the best... being able to actually view what you have and all the helpful tools you have...before actually having to purchase anything. Like I said I really feel safe here...because you seem very sincere to help us succeed... not just provide leads and take our money. So Thank-You again.

Before launching Omnilife and becoming a billionaire, Jorge Vergara sold street tacos in Mexico, smuggled Herbalife supplements into Mexico, and sweet talked the Mexican government into changing their regulations in the nutritional products sector. This guy could make a movie about his life and it would probably win an Academy Award (he’s actually a major film producer on the side, casual).
Our Telephone Interviewed Leads are not just contact lists. Our Verification Department has contacted each individual lead before you receive it to ensure their seriousness in wanting to start a home based business. You will receive all of their contact information and best time to call so that you are able to contact them at a convenient time and speak with an individual that is sincere about making money from home. We also offer our Telephone Interviewed Leads in female only for any business that prefers contacting only women. 
Unlike other distribution methods MLM/NM companies don't advertise their products on TV or other mass media but rather depend on their customers to share the experience and recommend the products to their friends and relatives through word of mouth. They in return get 10-12 % profit of the sale value. Word of mouth/ recommending someone is a very powerful marketing tool which is cheaper and could reach more people because the selling of product is based on trust. Would you not buy a product your close friend uses and finds beneficial and asks you to try ?

Multi-level marketing companies are not required to release information about the average income of distributors in the United States. However, some MLMs do release this information in what is called an income disclosure statement. If you would like to see the amount of income gained by distributors on average for a specific MLM, search the company’s name in Google + “income disclosure statement.”
With the perennial boom and bust cycle of the American job market, there are always going to be people who have decided that they’ve had enough and they want to strike out on their own, trying to be their own boss. These people, known as business opportunity buyers or simply opportunity leads are hungry for ideas and turn key businesses that they can buy into in order to create their own success.
Writing and commenting in MLM niche forums is yet again another great way to generate free MLM leads. Network marketers hang out on forums reading, writing and asking questions. When a new expert shows up on the forum answering specific questions, the regular readers will go investigating to find out who they are, and a new relationship will start to form.
Don’t give up, and don’t throw money into areas where you don’t have to. There’s no such thing as completely free marketing leads – you are always risking something, whether it is your brand, or your future earning potential. However, with good networking, passion, and the right people, you can achieve success. Talk to some mentors and more experienced marketers today, and see what they have to say for you. You may be surprised at how much you can bring in, with the right choices when you are getting started.
Our goal is to provide you with the best possible tools to build your network marketing business. There are some critical areas in building your business that are very important and can never be overlooked. Having new prospects look at your business is by far the most important task you can ever accomplish in network marketing. The next key, is having the skill set and knowing what to say to prospects. We provide ongoing real-time prospects that are looking for ways to make an additional income by working from home and we also provide you with scripts and training calls where you can listen to us do live calls and speak to prospects.
You already know that MLM has the potential to be one of the most valuable business opportunities that you can possibly get involved with. However, if you are getting started with a new MLM venture, you are engaged in an uphill battle. There are plenty of other MLM pros and entrepreneurs out there who would like to use your prospects to build their list!
Writing MLM-specific articles is another great way of establishing authority inside of MLM. When people type in a search term or phrase on a specific MLM topic, and an article appears with the networkers name as the author, if the article answers a specific question, and is not just a spam piece, then the reader will visit the site to learn more about the author.
I believe the ones that don’t make it in the industry (if they chose a good one) don’t give it enough time (like you said they quit before a year is up) and commitment to doing what it takes to grow. I don’t spam FB and only 2 family members order product but I have at least 100+ home school moms making >$2000/mth. Some team members make more, some less. It’s what they put into it (business wise not monetary)
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